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Author Topic: The fallacy of E85  (Read 987 times)
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raistlin
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« on: March 09, 2008, 02:11:48 AM »

Ok, since I have a "flexfuel" vehicle, which means that it can operate with regular unleaded 10% ethanol gasoline, or 85% ethanol, I have been doing some research into E85 and its practicallity as a useful alternative source of fuel.  And I have come up with this; the engines computer can detect what fuel is being used and adjust its fuel/air ratios to maintain performance to the same levels no matter which fuel you are using.  However, E85 has less potential energy and thus more is needed to maintain performance at the same levels as regular gas.  The computer adjusts and ends up using about 30% more fuel than when using regular gas.  So, you will not notice a difference in how your vehicle operates, but you will loose about 30% of what you were getting for gas mileage. 

What this means is that in order for E85 to become a viable ecinomic alternative to gasoline, it will have to sell for less than 70% of what the price is for gasoline.  For instance, if regular unleaded is going for $3 per gallon, E85 would have to sell for less than $2.10 in order to even start to be ecinomical.  Now, I don't know about where some of you live, but around here, in the suburbs of the greater Chicagoland area, E85 is difficult to find (usually only sold at Gas City) and is always, always, set price at 30 cents under the price of regular gasoline.  Now, E85 (by definition, meaning 85% corn byproduct, and 15% petroleum based) is right now going for $2.95 per gallon, because the price of regular right now is $3.25 per gallon.  When the price of crude oil skyrockets and the price of regular hits $4 per gallon, guess how much Gas City will be charging for E85?  You betcha, $3.70.  Why?  The price of crude oil couldn't effect E85 as much as regular gasoline, its only 15% petroleum, whereas regular is 90%, so that can't be it,  It might be due to a massive shortage of corn in the US everytime the price of a barrel of oil jumps, but that sounds a little too convienient.  I find it more likely that those gullible enough to buy E85 are being humped at the pump.  Prison bitch style.  Until E85 starts to reflect its lack of dependance on oil in its price, It will not be a viable alternative to gasoline.  I'm curious to hear what the prices of E85 is in other parts of the country/world, I know some who post here live quite far from my neck of the woods, and I'd like to know if its just around here that this happens.  Thanks for listening, I thus end my rant.   rant
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2008, 10:04:30 AM »

You didn't mention this, so I will.

The energy spent refining a gallon of E85 is LESS than the potential energy of a gallon of E85. For those of you who may have not followed that, creating E85 is not efficient.

E85 was engineered to placate the leftist pinko commie environmentalists. Lets not get me wrong, here. I love the environment. I hate environmentalists, who turn a good thing into a political thing.
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2008, 07:06:40 PM »

You didn't mention this, so I will.

The energy spent refining a gallon of E85 is LESS than the potential energy of a gallon of E85. For those of you who may have not followed that, creating E85 is not efficient.

E85 was engineered to placate the leftist pinko commie environmentalists. Lets not get me wrong, here. I love the environment. I hate environmentalists, who turn a good thing into a political thing.
Not quite true.

E85 is actualy quite efficient when manucatured from Sugar Cane, like they do in Brazil.

Since we make it from Corn, it's a very bad energy exchange.
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2008, 09:40:51 PM »

...Gas City...
On a side note, there are a few places that have it around Rt 59 other than just them (Gas City), but they (Gas City again) are generaly $.10-.20 higher per gallon on normal gas than other stations.

On a side note, I also find it amusing that the cars pushing "flex-Fuel" are the generaly inefficient cars.  It's not that hard to make them all E-85 compatable (under $200 a car post manufacture even I believe), so why not just make them all that way?

Edited because what I said and what I ment were very different.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 03:18:03 AM by Bront » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2008, 12:48:24 AM »

On a side note, there are a few places that have it around Rt 59 other than just them, but they are generaly $.10-.20 higher per gallon on normal gas than normal.
Huh!   Undecided
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